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Thanks to everyone who turned up to last nights film showing at the Narrow Boat. I recognised some of the faces from around town and having grown up here - a nice mixture of down to Earth people. A difficult crowd to sterotype basically - though that won't stop a couple of people... but who gives a smeg: -)
And the feedback was very positive (as I have seen all over the country) I am glad that you all got something out of it, we will definitely hold another one soon.
Sorry to those who couldn't get in, the next will be held at a bigger venue.
The tide is turning and it is great to see Skipton playing its part in the process.
20/10/2006 11:30:26
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Sorry I missed it, can you bring me up to date.
Did you get round to discussing holocaust denial or is that only for the inner circle?
Have David and Annie got all the blood of their hands yet?
20/10/2006 13:40:47
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13:40:47 no comment really, you're obviously a fool.
20/10/2006 19:25:42
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The tide is turning? What exactly does that mean...that we can all sleep soundly in our beds, safe in the knowledge that it was all our own governments fault after all? Hurrah. I'm sure once you've convinced everyone that the real enemy is Bush & Blair who are blowing everything up, then those nasty extremists will all disappear in a puff of smoke and the whole world will be happy once more. Get real. There is a real and present danger that attacks against us will happen again...and it's Al- Qaeda who will be doing it. Oh, and please stop calling anyone who has an alternative view from "The Truth Movement" point fools. Just because you have an agenda it doesn't mean you are right.
20/10/2006 22:19:21
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There is no inner circle, no holocaust denial and no blood on David, Annies or my hands.
This is quite a serious suggestion that you are making (though you are free to ask at will) - I mean the indication is that we have some kind of anti-semitic agenda (the most commonly used smear tactic by the way).
And just to be clear: no I aren't still beating my wife!
I'd be really interested to know why you think that they have blood on their hands, I mean do you even know what you are talking about?
Basically they both witnessed first hand the incompetence of the Security Servive at various different times and levels and the funding of Al Qaeda to illegally assassinate Col Gadaffi (who I am no fan of). The plot went wrong and innocent civillians died. (Read Annies book 'Spies Lies & Whistleblowers' - its all in there, less the parts that were censored out by the government.)
20/10/2006 22:24:59
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19:25:42
"no comment really"
Can't say I blame you.
Only following your advice and asking the difficult questions. Your reticence is noted.
"you're obviously a fool"
And you are?
So early to resort to insults.
20/10/2006 22:46:53
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22:46:53 not primarily meant as an insult, they obviously are a fool (we've all been there - nobody is perfect) They presented themself as such by making such an overtly intimidating and ignorant comment, so I called a spade a spade.
21/10/2006 09:46:40
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I am surprised to hear you say that an anti-Semitic agenda is the most commonly leveled criticism of the conspiracy industry. The most commonly leveled criticism I have heard, apart from the obvious ones of gullibility and naiveté is of the lack of any clear and distinct statement of what they think actually happened and the lack of any credible scientific back up for any of the plethora of claims. But still, I suppose you should know best.
In the light of the fact that you claim anti-Semitism is the criticism most often leveled I ask, are you surprised? If you visit some of these sites yourself, you must have noticed the regular inclusion of posts linking Zionism to the attack so 911 and to a plot to dominate the world. I have even seen posts from one of our local “activists” (under a different brand name) claiming that “the holocaust was exaggerated” and linking to right wing extremist sites.
Before I looked further into the conspiracy craze I simply thought of it as a relatively harmless outlet for the over active imaginations that would otherwise be tracking UFO’s or trying to prove that the moon landings were faked. After following up some of the provided links, I now think there are more sinister motives at work.
21/10/2006 14:57:53
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I think your “tame” spooks have blood on their hands because of what they were. Do you think they were innocent bystanders? Obviously I have no evidence, for the same reason that you have no evidence of how the US government pulled of the 911 attacks. It is their prime intention to not leave evidence.
To suggest that I confirm their rehabilitation by reading Annie’s book is equivalent to telling me to read the official account of the attacks to find out what happened.
Welcoming purportedly ex secret police as comrades for one who wishes to cut through state secrecy and misinformation seems seems a dubious choice to me.
Have you considered for a moment what a daddy of all straw men the whole "truth movement" itself could be?
If you "call a spade a spade" shouldn't you then call someone who is intimidating, intimidating and someone who is ignorant, ignorant? Just a thought, fool is ok if you prefer.
21/10/2006 14:59:08
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Howie
"The tide is turning." And how do you measure that? Previously I asked whether you had any evidence that you were in a majority of people that believed that the 9/11 attacks were not what they seem, and the silence was deafening. Now here's another claim that people believe your hypothesis, so again I ask, what's your evidence?
This is quite apart from the lack of evidence of any conspiracy, but seems indicative of the sloppiness of the thinking behind this campaign.
21/10/2006 18:42:04
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18:42:04
How could you tell who it was? He can be quite the shape shifter when he likes.
You might have to wait a while for an answer; I suspect he is dashing all over the net doing judicious edits of previous posts.
He would be wasting his time though, I know what he is.
21/10/2006 20:23:00
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21/10/2006 20:23:00 - Howie is recognisable by his decent grammar, only let down by his inability to use the apostrophe, his support for the "truth movement" (aka "conspiracy theorist sect"), and his assertions that a few people turning out at a rally constitutes some sort of People's Revolution.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I reckon the original post bears all the hallmarks of a geniune Howie. Or maybe it's a CIA false flag posting. Ye gods, what a fool I've been!
21/10/2006 21:33:19
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Don't worry; I think you were right the first time.
Some entertainment while we wait? A little light relief after all the Loose Brains nonsense :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgnFVRTYBSA
Kenny knows.
21/10/2006 22:00:54
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What an absolute load of juvenile playground tactic nonsense 14:57:53 & 14:59:08, seriously you ought to step in the arena instead of sniping from the stands.
You post as someone with a no-nonsense 'suffer no fools' attitude, but I'll bet that in person you have more faces than Big Ben.
Any time someone tries to post something on here about a serious issue such as 9/11 truth, you try to water it down by poisoning the well with your stereotyping, ignorance of the data and mocking-bird mentality. And speak as if you represent the common view... you don't.
More and more people are joining us - from all walks of life and people like you with your best efforts to put them off (through manipulation of fear and guilt) are not going to succeed.
Anyone who DID attend the talk who wasn't totally consumed by a pre-concieved idea will know that your comments are as flimsy as the whole basis for the war on terror.
And remember, you are the one who mentioned Zionism and UFO's... not me!
Total waste of time debating you.
One link for 18:42:04 regarding the turning tide: http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/13469
I'm sure you'll find a way of turning 16% into 99%
22/10/2006 00:19:21
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There's a difference between 16% of Americans believing that the US government is telling the truth about what it knew prior to the 9/11 attacks, and a majority thinking that they were "an inside job".
Yes, there is increasing distrust shown in the two polls cited, but I notice that these were not conducted by a polling organisation, and those polled did not necessarilty respond (therefore creating a self-selecting sample). We don't know whether the two polls were conducted on the basis of the same questions and in the same way.
Hardly a ringing endorsement.
22/10/2006 08:20:57
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South Park... juvenile, how dare you!
:-)
So I have now progressed from a mere fool, to a many faced fool who doesn't suffer fools. True to form, your only recourse is to insults.
As I have no intent or right to claim that I represent any view other than my own, I challenge you to illustrate where, outside of your rabid imagination, I have done so. I know you won't though because you can’t; true to form, you are making things up again. "Truth" activist?
I might have been the one to mention the "movements" underlying cancer of anti-semitism on this board. I only do so though after following the links you and your cohorts have provided. I notice you seem happy enough to discuss it elsewhere.
Do you think the people of Skipton are not yet sufficiently primed to accept the unexpurgated version of your complete theories, or are you trying to create your own flock of sheeple?
I consider your dismissal of my concerns about the demonstrable influence of anti-semitism in the "movement" as a whole, and your own theories about it in particular, as being juvenile and unworthy of debate is evasive and disingenuous in the extreme.
22/10/2006 13:19:42
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"I'm sure you'll find a way of turning 16% into 99% "
I have no wish to manipulate figures which illustrate the continued ignorance of the US population. Why should I?
You do not have a monopoly on the understanding that we are governed by liars and murderers who maintain their position by manipulating their populations with fear, ignorance and propaganda.
To consider the preaching of the "truth movement" as wooly, vague and in some cases, manipulated by ulterior motives does not necessarily indicate any trust or respect for the Bush regime. To constantly imply it does is one of your most irritating false assumptions.
Kyle: Anybody who thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy is a retard.
Cartman: Oh, really? Well, did you know that over one-fourth of people in America think that 9/11 was a conspiracy? Are you saying that one-fourth of Americans are retards?
Kyle: Yes, I'm saying one-fourth of Americans are retards.
Stan: Yeah, at least one-fourth.
22/10/2006 13:45:44
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Here's where, Howie:
http://www.skiptonweb.co.uk/message_board/results.asp?k=i+am+in+the+majority&submit=go
By the way, there are least two sceptics contributing to this thread. I'm the one picking up on your bald assertions of the popularity of your thesis, though I heartily agree with the other, who is challenging the whole nonsense.
22/10/2006 13:52:32
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08:20:57 well get out and start talking to people on the streets like I do... you will see the response is overwhelmingly in support (i.e. "we don't believe that 19 guys attacked us (the West) on 11/09/2001 - it looks like the shadow government that US President Eisenhower warned us about did it").
Why is it up to me to give you these answers?
My job is not to convince anybody of anything. It is simply to stand up (where others wont) and tell the truth as it is the lie that is sending us into a meat grinder.
22/10/2006 14:48:47
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I wouldn't pay much attention to the word on the streets of Skipton. That’s the town that is 70% racist and is still prepared to tolerate an apartheid educational system rejected every where else in the country. Hardly a hotbed of enlightened thought.
"Why is it up to me to give you these answers?"
What answers? To what questions? You are the one on a self declared mission to enlighten us lesser mortals yet when asked questions, you continually evade or ignore them. I will try another...
What is your opinion of the accepted history of the holocaust and how do you think it relates to the events of 911?
22/10/2006 18:33:35
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"well get out and start talking to people on the streets like I do... you will see the response is overwhelmingly in support"
What like this? ...
"I went to the pub/bar tonight & started talking to people about 9/11,
5 of them said I was mad
& said the usual "it was the planes that caused so much damage to the buildings that caused them to fall, there were no bombs in those buildings" etc etc , I showed them some parts of 9/11 eyewitness & loose change on my mp3/video player
but they still would not listen,
they said the explosions & squibs were caused by generators exploding."
.........cut.........
"All of the people I spoke to had internet access & I said go to google video & look for loose change, 9/11 eyewitness, in plane site & terrorstorm,
but I doubt any of them will bother to watch them."
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12411&hl=
For a so called "truth" activist, you tell a lot of porkys.
22/10/2006 19:40:32
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18:33:35 you are so barking up the wrong tree.
70% racist!? what planet are you from?
22/10/2006 20:14:22
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20:14:22
So glad you asked. Please excuse my slight discrepancy, it apears the tide has turned slightly:-
Racism - votes: 122
by: o.a.p
ends:18 November 2006
To all religions, do you consider your self to be racist in any way?.
Yes : 68.9%
No : 31.1%
http://www.skiptonweb.co.uk/poll/index.asp?offset=10
22/10/2006 20:54:38
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19:40:32 What do you expect in a pub!
Ask five people in a pub - if they give you a negative response - if they know: -
- Who Norman Minetta is.
- What Able Danger is.
- What WTC7 was.
- What PNAC is.
- Who William Rodriguez is.
I'll bet you they score 0/5.
So who cares what the ignorant think of you.
22/10/2006 21:37:38
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20:54:38 I saw that already and knew that this was what you were referring to.
The problem with online forums is that it is a wet-dream for every nasty piece of work. People who harbour nasty desires and feelings who don't have the balls to come out with it in the 'real world'.
Of course you get an overwhelming (albeit unrealistic) sample number of voters saying they consider themselves racist.
It just does not ring true for the good people of Skipton.
The problem you face now is that not only have you acted like a fool in your attack and have therefore bolstered support and sympathy for those in my camp, but now with your latest display of ignorance (i.e. the 70% racist thing) you have offended 70% of the people in Skipton.
Nice play.
23/10/2006 15:49:05
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15:49:05
How simplistic yet paradoxically so contrived.
You should join the conspiracy nuts.
As for the good people of Skipton.... xxxx em. You might be on a popularity contest, I am not. I have heard enough of the good people of Skipton with regards to racism to think the poll underestimates them.
If you want to discuss it further, please start a new thread, I will gladly join you there.
23/10/2006 17:26:20
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17:26:20 I think I'll pass mate!
"As for the good people of Skipton.... xxxx em" - compared to you, I probably am on a popularity contest...
By this point I aren't actually interested in up-staging you in this childish 'battle of playground wits' - It is quite clear that you are an unhappy person. I'll leave you to it
23/10/2006 21:00:33
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21:00:33
Don’t confuse me for any mate of yours.
"I'll leave you to it "
Without answering the questions as usual.
Evade and retreat.
Till the next time, I hope you get "better".
Shalom
23/10/2006 22:12:37
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Namaste 22:12:37
I'd love to meet you. This is a serious offer. Are you in Skipton?
24/10/2006 17:26:54
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Is shalom a jewish saying/phrase?. If it is, the whole attacking the 9/11Truth movement on the grounds that it has an anti-semantic message and bringing up the holocaust in an attempt to imply that Howie believes it did't/did happen shows that you have not watched the videos, attended any meetings or (best of all) looked up any scientific evidence yourself. If you did come you would see that there is no anti semantic message.Just a lot of unanswered questions and no concise official statements/reports. Come to a meeting and ask David Shayler your questions (some were very good question). I thought it was rubbish until i looked some of the stuff up. What convinced me is the physics behind the attacks and properties of metal (melting temp etc) which cant be explained away.
24/10/2006 19:09:33
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No David, Annie, myself nor anyone else I work with are 'holocaust deniers' - don't be such a spin merchant.
What a cynical human being you must be. You insult the good (yes 'good') people of Skipton by calling them racist and say 'xxxx them', you accuse people that you haven't even met of being anti-semitic, you rant about 'conspiracy theories' instead of covering anything of substance - in fact everything you come out with is form over substance.
Keep up the hard work though. I know loads of people from different walks of life that visit Skiptonweb - who aren't perhaps as opinionated as the rest of us - and they all feel that the 'truth movement' postings are interesting and the attack merchants (such as yourself) are just OTT. In fact over the years I haven't met anyone who feels otherwise.
What I am saying is that by making this an issue, you are pushing people further into our camp in the 911 truth movement and giving them something to think about, where they perhaps wouldn't normally.
I think that it is generally regarded that a lot of people just go on forums such as we have on skiptonweb to have a moan and a fight. It is the internet version of going down the pub and starting a fight with people you don't like the look of.
If you stop mincing words and actually come out with an argument of substance, I/we might take you a little more seriously.
24/10/2006 20:40:09
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Yes it is 19:09:33, they are just playing silly games because they have nothing better to do.
24/10/2006 23:02:50
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17:26:54
I don't see why you should want to meet me.
If you wish to attempt to convince me otherwise, please discuss the possibility of us exchanging email addresses with SkiptonWeb.
No offence intended, but I don't know who you are or what you want.
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Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.
(Andre Gide)
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24/10/2006 23:17:39
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19:09:33 Yes it is, it means Peace. In its context and to its recipient it also carried other meanings.
Your claim that because I suggest that anti-semitism is the driving force of the truth movement and a hidden agenda of many of its proponents shows that I haven't watched any of the videos is totally illogical and untrue. I have watched many if not all of them. If you are saying that the mainstream propaganda of the movement, In Plane Site, Loose Change etc does not openly promote anti-semitism, I agree. If you have a look at some of the message boards on the subject or follow up some of the links you will see that this is a purely tactical ploy to cover the fact that their true agenda would be obnoxious to most people and illegal in many European countries.
You also make the mistake of assuming that because I despise the hidden agenda of the” truth movement”, that I automatically believe the official version of events. That is also totally without logic or truth.
If you have sufficient knowledge and evidence to disprove the official version, why not publish it, you would surely get a Nobel Prize for it. What qualifications do you have to support your conviction that the physics can’t be explained away by mainstream scientists btw? Apart from having watched a video telling you so.
25/10/2006 00:05:40
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I don’t know what David or Annie are up to. I am positive that they are intelligent enough to know the truth of my claims of a strong association of anti-Semitism and the “truth movement”. They either acquiesce to it for their own reasons, or they support it. You however… I KNOW exactly what you are.
“What a cynical human being you must be”
So what has that got to do with anything! I will add it to the growing list of insults and psychobabble you keep throwing. Stick to the points!
”You insult the good (yes 'good') people of Skipton
Not interested in your crevice creeping.
“by calling them racist and say 'xxxx them'”
You can copy and paste that as many times as you like and I will still stand by it. You can’t understand sincerity can you! Offended or not, any anti-racist will understand my motive and intent, any non racist who didn’t bother to send a message to the thugs deserves a kick up the backside and the racists deserve far worse.
“you accuse people that you haven't even met of being anti-semitic,”
I never met Adolph either, but I also KNOW what he was.
“you rant about 'conspiracy theories'
….blah….blah….BIG CUT….blah….blah….
met anyone who feels otherwise.”
Did you just say something?
25/10/2006 01:31:55
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“What I am saying is that by making this an issue, you are pushing people further into our camp in the 911 truth movement and giving them something to think about, where they perhaps wouldn't normally.”
Is that a problem for you? Thanks for the warning though, very sporting old man. I will be more careful in future.
“I think that it is generally regarded that a lot of people just go on forums such as we have on skiptonweb to have a moan and a fight. It is the internet version of going down the pub and starting a fight with people you don't like the look of.”
Speak for yourself, is this a local trait?
If you stop mincing words and actually come out with an argument of substance, I/we might take you a little more seriously.
I don’t wish to argue with you at all. Your opinion of me is of no value or interest whatsoever. If those others you claim as “we” hold the same views as you, that goes for them as well.
I believe that there is a strong element of anti-Semitism behind the so called “truth” industry. I know that as part of his NWO theories one of the local rep’s actively but surreptitiously promotes anti-Semitism. I will post my responses to any promotion of their activities as and when I choose, SkiptonWeb permitting of course.
25/10/2006 01:33:09
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Some websites also say space aliens carried out 9/11. In fact some months ago I was in a debate with George Galloway on air regarding 9/11 being an inside job and one guy called in and said that 'God' carried out 9/11!
I am sorry, but your 'guilt by association' tactics are, once again, flimsy.
Other people can say what they like and you can try to link that to us to try to discred it us. Basically you are stretching.
I also like the assumption that our conclusions come solely from independent websites and from watching films like Loose Change and In Plane Sight... you are amazing. You have no idea what level of research we have put into this.
Again, keep showing your ignorance.
25/10/2006 08:34:34
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I am talking about what YOU have said.
STOP your diversion tactics.
The association is directly to YOU.
STOP hiding behind others.
I do not assume your conclusions come only from the "commercial" offerings like Loose Change and In Plane Sight. I mentioned these in responded to another posters direct suggestion "that you have not watched the videos" (24/10/2006 19:09:33 line3). Is that what you are trying to misrepresent?
STOP twisting my words.
I do know what level of research YOU have put into it, and imo it’s the absolute lowest level possible.
STOP making uninformed and incorrect assumptions.
I think I have already told you how much I value your opinion.
25/10/2006 12:04:36
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And I yours 12:04:36. It is just eye opening to see how our opponents minds work.
You are so full of garbage it beggars belief. Just because someone, somewhere on skiptonweb makes a comment about the holocaust (saying it is exaggerated) - that automatically means that we (i.e. the 9/11 truth movement UK and Ireland) are on a secret anti semitic agenda.
And you call us conspiracy theorists?!. This is absolute frickin nonsense!
Just go look up Operation Northwoods, the official government plan to carry out 9/11 style attacks which was approved by the Joint Chiefs of Staff back in the 60's. See the admissions on cia.gov that they used (their words) 'false-flag terrorism' against Mohammed Mossadec in Operation Ajax in the 50's.
See how 'Boy' George Bush considered stage managing an attack on a fake UN plane in 2003 as an easy excuse to invade Saddam. Look up how the whole 'babies in incubators' scam aided 'Poppy' Bush in invading Saddam in 1991. On and on and on and on.
Then look up PNAC and how in September 2000 they planned to do everything that they have implemented post-9/11, but at the time might not be able to without a "catastrophic and catalysing event, like a New Pearl Harbor".
This world is being hijacked by a bunch of demons in my opinion and not only are you are too ignorant to see it, you attack those who are brave enough to speak out.
Shame on you!
25/10/2006 18:09:49
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Thanks to all in Skipton for your efforts. The smoking gun to 9/11 is WTC7. How could a 47-story steel frame building come down with the exact characteristics of controlled demolition.
With regard to WTC 1 + 2, Steven Jones stated in Berkeley 2 weeks ago that when the additives of Thermite are played with it becomes a high explosive.
04/12/2006 21:42:49
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